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Nature or Nurture
#11
(12-18-2016, 08:34 PM)Sissy Matthew Wrote:
(12-18-2016, 08:00 PM)Sara In Charge Wrote: I'm going to bust out my hidden nerd here. I'm actually in the Biological Sciences and while human genetics isn't my specific field, I tend to know more about genetics than your average Josephine. 

This question is age-old and hugely interesting and I certainly don't have an answer, but I'd inject the following points which I think are relevant for a discussion of this type. 
  • One popular misconception is that there is a gene¬†for some trait. In reality, among humans and most other complex organisms, traits that are controlled by a single gene are quite rare. In humans, we call these Mendelian traits¬†after Gregor Mendel. There are a few common ones like basic eye color (though even that is modified into shades¬†by other genes), whether your earlobes are attached or unattached, whether you have mid-digital hair on your ring finger, whether you can roll your tongue, and whether you can taste a few obscure chemicals like PTC (the stuff you spray on furniture to repel your pets). ¬†But most human traits are controlled by 10s or hundreds of genes, and there are even subtleties in the way those are expressed.¬†
  • What the previous means is that human traits are complicated and therefore there is rarely a situation where someone "inherits" a complex behavior like being effeminate, being homosexual,¬†or gender dysphoria. There very well may be people predisposed to those things, but there is almost certainly no on/off switch, and there is almost always a spectrum of those sorts of behaviors.
  • Experience (nurture) can't modify genes under normal circumstances, but behavior isn't completely controlled by genetics, so the spectrums of behavior become even more blurred.¬†
  • Recent discoveries are demonstrating that epigenetic inheritance affects far more than we ever thought. Epigenetic inheritance means traits that are influenced by something other than gene expression. In other words, not coded in DNA, but passed on as some other cellular modification. These effects were previously thought to be rare, but¬†new discoveries in this area occur every day. And what these mean for inheritance is profound,¬†completely complicates the simpler picture we thought we had, and opens up many new avenues for nuanced traits.¬†
Anyway, don't know if anyone will read any of that crap, but that's a little basic current science to inject into the conversation. At the end of the day, many of our traits, both physical and behavioral, are affected by inheritance, but understanding exactly how much is inheritance vs. experience is an extremely complicated endeavor.

Sara,

Thanks for your input.

I don't disagree with anything you've said and I certainly wouldn't question your technical science (being a financial person myself).  Smile

When I said whether there was a "sissy gene" I meant it in a general sense e.g. Is there something biological, genetic or something else that may give a predisposition to certain kinds of behaviour. I agree with you that I wouldn't expect there to be any simple on/off switch for this type of thing. 

I think my point was that no one really knows and that it's probably a combination of both biological effects and how you are brought up. However, in both cases I think there is a spectrum and where you lie on this can determine what path you take as you get older...

SM

Hey SM. Certainly didn't mean to target your specific post intentionally with the "a gene" comment. Unfortunately it's a commonly used phrase and it's hard to tell when people really don't understand it or just aren't being very specific with language. Until a conversation we had about 2 or 3 years ago, my mother thought that every physical trait was simply one gene and there was basically a single gene for everything. I did not inherit my science aptitude from my mother, so that was a long conversation trying to get her to understand!
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#12
(12-18-2016, 08:46 PM)Sara In Charge Wrote:
(12-18-2016, 08:34 PM)Sissy Matthew Wrote:
(12-18-2016, 08:00 PM)Sara In Charge Wrote: I'm going to bust out my hidden nerd here. I'm actually in the Biological Sciences and while human genetics isn't my specific field, I tend to know more about genetics than your average Josephine. 

This question is age-old and hugely interesting and I certainly don't have an answer, but I'd inject the following points which I think are relevant for a discussion of this type. 
  • One popular misconception is that there is a gene¬†for some trait. In reality, among humans and most other complex organisms, traits that are controlled by a single gene are quite rare. In humans, we call these Mendelian traits¬†after Gregor Mendel. There are a few common ones like basic eye color (though even that is modified into shades¬†by other genes), whether your earlobes are attached or unattached, whether you have mid-digital hair on your ring finger, whether you can roll your tongue, and whether you can taste a few obscure chemicals like PTC (the stuff you spray on furniture to repel your pets). ¬†But most human traits are controlled by 10s or hundreds of genes, and there are even subtleties in the way those are expressed.¬†
  • What the previous means is that human traits are complicated and therefore there is rarely a situation where someone "inherits" a complex behavior like being effeminate, being homosexual,¬†or gender dysphoria. There very well may be people predisposed to those things, but there is almost certainly no on/off switch, and there is almost always a spectrum of those sorts of behaviors.
  • Experience (nurture) can't modify genes under normal circumstances, but behavior isn't completely controlled by genetics, so the spectrums of behavior become even more blurred.¬†
  • Recent discoveries are demonstrating that epigenetic inheritance affects far more than we ever thought. Epigenetic inheritance means traits that are influenced by something other than gene expression. In other words, not coded in DNA, but passed on as some other cellular modification. These effects were previously thought to be rare, but¬†new discoveries in this area occur every day. And what these mean for inheritance is profound,¬†completely complicates the simpler picture we thought we had, and opens up many new avenues for nuanced traits.¬†
Anyway, don't know if anyone will read any of that crap, but that's a little basic current science to inject into the conversation. At the end of the day, many of our traits, both physical and behavioral, are affected by inheritance, but understanding exactly how much is inheritance vs. experience is an extremely complicated endeavor.

Sara,

Thanks for your input.

I don't disagree with anything you've said and I certainly wouldn't question your technical science (being a financial person myself).  Smile

When I said whether there was a "sissy gene" I meant it in a general sense e.g. Is there something biological, genetic or something else that may give a predisposition to certain kinds of behaviour. I agree with you that I wouldn't expect there to be any simple on/off switch for this type of thing. 

I think my point was that no one really knows and that it's probably a combination of both biological effects and how you are brought up. However, in both cases I think there is a spectrum and where you lie on this can determine what path you take as you get older...

SM

Hey SM. Certainly didn't mean to target your specific post intentionally with the "a gene" comment. Unfortunately it's a commonly used phrase and it's hard to tell when people really don't understand it or just aren't being very specific with language. Until a conversation we had about 2 or 3 years ago, my mother thought that every physical trait was simply one gene and there was basically a single gene for everything. I did not inherit my science aptitude from my mother, so that was a long conversation trying to get her to understand!

Sara - no worries - wasn't taking offence or anything - just wanted to make it clear what I meant  Smile

If you asked my mother she would probably struggle to know what a gene was let alone whether they led to individual physical traits!
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#13
I think it's a matter of nurture and imprinting . Sometimes this can have a negative effect and sometimes it can leaad to a lifelong fetish .
Angel A little bit of hanky panky does you good .  Angel
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#14
I won't dispute any of the science that was presented here, nor do I think it contradicts my feelings on this subject. Like others, I think it's a combination of nature and nurture. I was fortunate to have both a mother and a Nana, that allowed (in fact encouraged) me when I displayed an interest in things (clothing for example) that were traditionally associated with girls. At the same time they both taught me the importance of of regular nail and hair care, and allowed me to help with the housework as soon as I was old enough to contribute. In short, rather than telling me "no, boys don't wear panties or nail polish, and they don't keep house", they allowed the feminine aspects of my personality to flourish. I had a very happy childhood. That of course is all NURTURE.

As for NATURE, nobody told me to be mesmerized by the sight of a beautiful, statuesque, authoritative woman, that happened all by itself, naturally. Likewise, nobody told me to be captivated by the sight of a large cock on an alpha - I just was.

So, for me anyway, loving nurturing helped me develop naturally into the submissive sissy that I am today. And I am grateful.
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#15
I'm sure there's a spectrum of masculinity/femininity for both generic males and genetic females. And I'm sure that an individual can be moved further in one direction or the other along that spectrum by their environment.

I would guess that the further you are along the spectrum the easier it is to be pushed further in that direction.  

In my own circumstance, I believe that although I'm a male, I'm quite feminine in many ways. When my mother made me wear girls' clothes as a child I think it probably pushed me further towards femininity, to the point where I now feel as much a girl as a guy.
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