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Nature or Nurture
#1
Whilst my sissy behaviour was heavily instigated by my Mothers enforced dressing, I often wonder whether I was actually predisposed to it and that perhaps it's always been part of me from the beginning.

I'm no expert, but is there a sissy gene? Would it have happened by itself without any form of petticoat punishment? I am guessing the two are very much linked but interested to hear other people's views.

Sissy Matthew
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#2
A very interesting question.

I got punished by my mother and put into girls' and babies' clothes. But by the time I was a teenager the humiliation had been somewhat replaced by an acceptance and then actually enjoyment.

I can't help wondering if I was a sissy all along.
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#3
I have problems with sissy jeans too.  My mind may be feminine, but finding the right fit for a pair of jeans is so hard!  That's why I prefer dresses.  Still, there's things we can do, with sequins, bedazzling and embroidery to our jeans to show that we do NOT wear the pants in our families.
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#4
(11-05-2016, 02:35 AM)Sissy Renee Wrote: I have problems with sissy jeans too.  My mind may be feminine, but finding the right fit for a pair of jeans is so hard!  That's why I prefer dresses.  Still, there's things we can do, with sequins, bedazzling and embroidery to our jeans to show that we do NOT wear the pants in our families.

Wink
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#5
I have often wondered about this as well. Is all of my feminine side because of the time I spent in dresses growing up? Is it because my mother gave me extra attention and affection during those times and that I felt more accepted by her when dressed as such? Or was it because I was much more naturally that way, much the same that transgender people are born into the wrong biological sex? I know my mother told me as a teenager how 'naturally' I took to wearing the dresses and skirts and walking, talking, and acting like a girl.

There's a lot of questions in my mind about what the real reasons were. There were plenty of times I dressed up on my own without my mother's urging. Was it because of how I was treated dressed each way? There are a lot of things about me that are certainly male, while there are parts of me that are more feminine. I've taken gender identity tests and been marked as 'androgynous'. Is it because I learned how to act both male and female? Or because I AM both male and female inside.
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#6
(11-07-2016, 06:45 PM)Richardto Wrote: I have often wondered about this as well. Is all of my feminine side because of the time I spent in dresses growing up? Is it because my mother gave me extra attention and affection during those times and that I felt more accepted by her when dressed as such? Or was it because I was much more naturally that way, much the same that transgender people are born into the wrong biological sex? I know my mother told me as a teenager how 'naturally' I took to wearing the dresses and skirts and walking, talking, and acting like a girl.

There's a lot of questions in my mind about what the real reasons were. There were plenty of times I dressed up on my own without my mother's urging. Was it because of how I was treated dressed each way? There are a lot of things about me that are certainly male, while there are parts of me that are more feminine. I've taken gender identity tests and been marked as 'androgynous'. Is it because I learned how to act both male and female? Or because I AM both male and female inside.

Richarto,

I've never thought it was one or the other, but a combination of the two. I see it as a scale in which people may have different influences. At the time I always thought that my dressing was caused by "nurture" and enforcement by my Mother. Like many people, I moved from a position of not liking it to loving it - but was that because of some nature element that I'd always had, or because I didn't really have a choice?

For me it was probably the former, as there were other experiences and feelings that I had when I was younger that were unrelated. But, back then, these were surpressed due to the way society viewed things. Boys were boys and had to act like them. Maybe if I was born in todays world things would have been different.
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#7
(11-07-2016, 07:09 PM)Sissy Matthew Wrote:
(11-07-2016, 06:45 PM)Richardto Wrote: I have often wondered about this as well. Is all of my feminine side because of the time I spent in dresses growing up? Is it because my mother gave me extra attention and affection during those times and that I felt more accepted by her when dressed as such? Or was it because I was much more naturally that way, much the same that transgender people are born into the wrong biological sex? I know my mother told me as a teenager how 'naturally' I took to wearing the dresses and skirts and walking, talking, and acting like a girl.

There's a lot of questions in my mind about what the real reasons were. There were plenty of times I dressed up on my own without my mother's urging. Was it because of how I was treated dressed each way? There are a lot of things about me that are certainly male, while there are parts of me that are more feminine. I've taken gender identity tests and been marked as 'androgynous'. Is it because I learned how to act both male and female? Or because I AM both male and female inside.

Richarto,

I've never thought it was one or the other, but a combination of the two. I see it as a scale in which people may have different influences. At the time I always thought that my dressing was caused by "nurture" and enforcement by my Mother. Like many people, I moved from a position of not liking it to loving it - but was that because of some nature element that I'd always had, or because I didn't really have a choice?

For me it was probably the former, as there were other experiences and feelings that I had when I was younger that were unrelated. But, back then, these were surpressed due to the way society viewed things. Boys were boys and had to act like them. Maybe if I was born in todays world things would have been different.

I certainly understand your take on the matter, and I often consider that I have both the nature and nurture working together for me as well. While my dressing was not done for punishment, but instead was my mother's way of helping me to understand what it was like to be a girl (I had asked her that one night), I didn't have any stage where I had any intense dislike of it. I did too move to a point where I got a lot of enjoyment out of it, but again, was that because of what I liked or was it because of positive reinforcement from my mother and stepfather?

There were certainly times I was very nervous about dressing up, mainly going out in public or to family gatherings, and it was for much the same reasons you cited. This was the mid-80's and there was not the acceptance level that there is today; boys who didn't act like boys were often at risk of physical harm. As I got better at dressing and looking femme, I got a bit more confidence and it wasn't such an issue.
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#8
I'm going to bust out my hidden nerd here. I'm actually in the Biological Sciences and while human genetics isn't my specific field, I tend to know more about genetics than your average Josephine. 

This question is age-old and hugely interesting and I certainly don't have an answer, but I'd inject the following points which I think are relevant for a discussion of this type. 
  • One popular misconception is that there is a gene¬†for some trait. In reality, among humans and most other complex organisms, traits that are controlled by a single gene are quite rare. In humans, we call these Mendelian traits¬†after Gregor Mendel. There are a few common ones like basic eye color (though even that is modified into shades¬†by other genes), whether your earlobes are attached or unattached, whether you have mid-digital hair on your ring finger, whether you can roll your tongue, and whether you can taste a few obscure chemicals like PTC (the stuff you spray on furniture to repel your pets). ¬†But most human traits are controlled by 10s or hundreds of genes, and there are even subtleties in the way those are expressed.¬†
  • What the previous means is that human traits are complicated and therefore there is rarely a situation where someone "inherits" a complex behavior like being effeminate, being homosexual,¬†or gender dysphoria. There very well may be people predisposed to those things, but there is almost certainly no on/off switch, and there is almost always a spectrum of those sorts of behaviors.
  • Experience (nurture) can't modify genes under normal circumstances, but behavior isn't completely controlled by genetics, so the spectrums of behavior become even more blurred.¬†
  • Recent discoveries are demonstrating that epigenetic inheritance affects far more than we ever thought. Epigenetic inheritance means traits that are influenced by something other than gene expression. In other words, not coded in DNA, but passed on as some other cellular modification. These effects were previously thought to be rare, but¬†new discoveries in this area occur every day. And what these mean for inheritance is profound,¬†completely complicates the simpler picture we thought we had, and opens up many new avenues for nuanced traits.¬†
Anyway, don't know if anyone will read any of that crap, but that's a little basic current science to inject into the conversation. At the end of the day, many of our traits, both physical and behavioral, are affected by inheritance, but understanding exactly how much is inheritance vs. experience is an extremely complicated endeavor.
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#9
(12-18-2016, 08:00 PM)Sara In Charge Wrote: I'm going to bust out my hidden nerd here. I'm actually in the Biological Sciences and while human genetics isn't my specific field, I tend to know more about genetics than your average Josephine. 

This question is age-old and hugely interesting and I certainly don't have an answer, but I'd inject the following points which I think are relevant for a discussion of this type. 
  • One popular misconception is that there is a gene¬†for some trait. In reality, among humans and most other complex organisms, traits that are controlled by a single gene are quite rare. In humans, we call these Mendelian traits¬†after Gregor Mendel. There are a few common ones like basic eye color (though even that is modified into shades¬†by other genes), whether your earlobes are attached or unattached, whether you have mid-digital hair on your ring finger, whether you can roll your tongue, and whether you can taste a few obscure chemicals like PTC (the stuff you spray on furniture to repel your pets). ¬†But most human traits are controlled by 10s or hundreds of genes, and there are even subtleties in the way those are expressed.¬†
  • What the previous means is that human traits are complicated and therefore there is rarely a situation where someone "inherits" a complex behavior like being effeminate, being homosexual,¬†or gender dysphoria. There very well may be people predisposed to those things, but there is almost certainly no on/off switch, and there is almost always a spectrum of those sorts of behaviors.
  • Experience (nurture) can't modify genes under normal circumstances, but behavior isn't completely controlled by genetics, so the spectrums of behavior become even more blurred.¬†
  • Recent discoveries are demonstrating that epigenetic inheritance affects far more than we ever thought. Epigenetic inheritance means traits that are influenced by something other than gene expression. In other words, not coded in DNA, but passed on as some other cellular modification. These effects were previously thought to be rare, but¬†new discoveries in this area occur every day. And what these mean for inheritance is profound,¬†completely complicates the simpler picture we thought we had, and opens up many new avenues for nuanced traits.¬†
Anyway, don't know if anyone will read any of that crap, but that's a little basic current science to inject into the conversation. At the end of the day, many of our traits, both physical and behavioral, are affected by inheritance, but understanding exactly how much is inheritance vs. experience is an extremely complicated endeavor.
===========================
Those glasses in your avatar look a little nerdy in a cute way. Wink 
I can't disagree with what you wrote, in fact it sounds about right to me. So, yes I believe it is mostly nurture.
Yep, I read that 'crap' 3 times and thank-you for writing it.

I haven't joined '23 and Me' yet but I find it tempting.  I have no science degree but I have to believe the more one knows the better.  That is a bit off-topic, so I'll leave it at that.  MM
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#10
(12-18-2016, 08:00 PM)Sara In Charge Wrote: I'm going to bust out my hidden nerd here. I'm actually in the Biological Sciences and while human genetics isn't my specific field, I tend to know more about genetics than your average Josephine. 

This question is age-old and hugely interesting and I certainly don't have an answer, but I'd inject the following points which I think are relevant for a discussion of this type. 
  • One popular misconception is that there is a gene¬†for some trait. In reality, among humans and most other complex organisms, traits that are controlled by a single gene are quite rare. In humans, we call these Mendelian traits¬†after Gregor Mendel. There are a few common ones like basic eye color (though even that is modified into shades¬†by other genes), whether your earlobes are attached or unattached, whether you have mid-digital hair on your ring finger, whether you can roll your tongue, and whether you can taste a few obscure chemicals like PTC (the stuff you spray on furniture to repel your pets). ¬†But most human traits are controlled by 10s or hundreds of genes, and there are even subtleties in the way those are expressed.¬†
  • What the previous means is that human traits are complicated and therefore there is rarely a situation where someone "inherits" a complex behavior like being effeminate, being homosexual,¬†or gender dysphoria. There very well may be people predisposed to those things, but there is almost certainly no on/off switch, and there is almost always a spectrum of those sorts of behaviors.
  • Experience (nurture) can't modify genes under normal circumstances, but behavior isn't completely controlled by genetics, so the spectrums of behavior become even more blurred.¬†
  • Recent discoveries are demonstrating that epigenetic inheritance affects far more than we ever thought. Epigenetic inheritance means traits that are influenced by something other than gene expression. In other words, not coded in DNA, but passed on as some other cellular modification. These effects were previously thought to be rare, but¬†new discoveries in this area occur every day. And what these mean for inheritance is profound,¬†completely complicates the simpler picture we thought we had, and opens up many new avenues for nuanced traits.¬†
Anyway, don't know if anyone will read any of that crap, but that's a little basic current science to inject into the conversation. At the end of the day, many of our traits, both physical and behavioral, are affected by inheritance, but understanding exactly how much is inheritance vs. experience is an extremely complicated endeavor.

Sara,

Thanks for your input.

I don't disagree with anything you've said and I certainly wouldn't question your technical science (being a financial person myself).  Smile

When I said whether there was a "sissy gene" I meant it in a general sense e.g. Is there something biological, genetic or something else that may give a predisposition to certain kinds of behaviour. I agree with you that I wouldn't expect there to be any simple on/off switch for this type of thing. 

I think my point was that no one really knows and that it's probably a combination of both biological effects and how you are brought up. However, in both cases I think there is a spectrum and where you lie on this can determine what path you take as you get older...

SM
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