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Not so Much Punishment
#1
Hi all,
 
What an interesting forum found it by accident.
 
I have read with interest a number of stories about petticoat punishment and find it quite fascinating.
 
My story is a little different but along the same lines, petticoat punishment was not really used on me however my parents did start to dress me in girls clothes when I was 11.
 
I was adopted and being back in the early 1970s the church ran the show in Ireland, It turns out I was born Intersexed but was sealed up as a baby and raised as male, However when puberty hit or should I say did not hit there was a lot of investigation,
 
At the time I was told I was biologically female and moves were afoot to get me to accept my gender and to try living in the role. At the time I think doctors felt that one would accept anything one was told and go with it, But I was rather put out by it, I will not claim that I was a macho boy far from it, I was into music and wired and making things but was not into what typical boys at the time did, Having a slight frame at the time meant I was bullied a lot as boys saw me as different got called a queer and beaten.
 
Though I did like doing things with my dad, At the time I felt a lot of pressure from hospital and doctors to conform, there were no real therapists unlike now, It was very much do as we ask please. First time I tried on girls clothes was surreal in a way so I can understand other persons musings on this site, I suppose I knew the day was coming as my mother had mentioned it a few times but it was not until the shoes were on the floor and the clothes were hanging on the chair in my room did it become reality, What really bothered me was the hair piece as in my visits to the hospital I had seen bald kids my age quite ill, I wondered was there something they were not telling me. There were tears and blubbering but in the end I tried on the clothes and once the hair piece went on I actually looked like a younger version of my sister which was totally weird and in a way maybe I convinced myself they were right, My mother insisted I stayed as I was until my dad came home so I could face him, I remember feeling dumb exposed and ashamed.
 
What was weird is when I left that morning the clothes were dumped over the chair in the bedroom, I was pleasantly surprised to see they were gone however when I opened my wardrobe they were hanging up in there, I remember dumping them on my parents bed as I did not want any of those clothes to be in my room, nothing was said that night, though when I came home from school the following evening I was told off, and was told if I dumped them again I would Iron them next time when I went to my room they were back in my wardrobe.
Everything was normal until my next visit to hospital at which point I ended up wearing the clothes and hair, I was upset and felt ashamed but what could one do when parents were pushing the agenda back in those days we did as we were told. I remember feeling cold and I remember at lunchtime we always went for lunch when the bloods were being done, It was a windy day and I was so worried my hair would fly off or my clothes would fly up, I was afraid of been seen as a boy but everyone saw a girl, I remember seeing girls out from school and wondered how they put up with what I was doing every day and wondered were any of them like me. I was so happy to get home that night so I could change and be myself and everything went back to normal as if it never happened until the next hospital visit.
 
 
 



 
 
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#2
Hi Karen,

Welcome! I am delighted you found this forum and are participating by posting as you have. Being active here makes this a lot more enjoyable.

Since you are using a female name (one I love, by the way), I assume you are either living as a female now or are getting some girl time in your life. Being intersexed is a challenge at any time. I have an online intersexed friend I have known for six years. She was the youngest of four boys in a very Catholic family here in the U.S. She thought she was a regular boy until everything went topsy turvy on her at 13- breasts and started looking completely like a girl. Worse than that, she was diagnosed as being sterile as a male with a non- functional micro- penis.

To the family's dismay, the doctors recommended she transition to female with surgery to have a more normal life. Her parents allowed her to choose, and with mom's gentle suggestion "what's not to like about being a girl?" she went ahead and had her surgery at 16.

It took years for her to become comfortable as a female but ultimately she did. She finally accepted a date 10 years later- he is now her husband. She is also a mom, by adoption, of course.

She was kind of shocked when she realized she was straight as a female and attracted to guys but admits that estrogen is one powerful thing.

Karen, I hope your life has happiness too. I look forward to hearing more!

By the way, I live and work male and am married, but I dream girl, as I have ever since was five.

Kimmi
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#3
Hi Kimmy.



That’s amazing about your friend, she is of the age that these things happened, and nowadays it’s different,

I am living as female now, but only in the last year, I found out I had a womb removed when I was 17 told it was an appendix removal, and my hormones were all messed up since then, I have had health issues since then because they body was not getting what it required, finally I was put under a endo who knew her stuff and started me on oestrogen within weeks there was weight loss and more energy blood pressure down and so on, I have found it easier to be trans to access the services, and the fact that in the states care when I was a baby decisions were made for me also helps getting the treatment I need now.

She was lucky she could accept transitioning at that age but her body was doing its own thing, I remember having many chats with doctors back in the day and all the time it was more “sure you will be better off” Having read books on the subject Dr Mooney in the states had this nurture rather than nature he felt children could grow up in either sex depending on how parents treated them. In my case I suppose my parents took doctors’ advice and pushed the matter “for my own good” But once they started it was like a slippery slope as I suppose the more I did the more that was expected.

Initially I played dress up for hospital and I suppose could get my head around it as in something I was doing because I had to rather than wanting to.
I think my parents and doctors hoped something would click in my head and I would like it, though I guess I felt I was letting down my dad by doing it kind of messed up in ways. Of course he only wanted the best for me and stood up for doctors and my mum rather than maybe for me in ways.

At first it was visits to the hospital and the first time I did it I was happy to get home and go back to normal the next time I knew I had to do it again was the night before my next visit a new outfit to try on I was not that happy, I suppose by the third time I was clear to me what was expected and in my mind I put up with it because it was for a day and everything went back to “normal“ In fairness to my mum she did not go uber femme which she could have easily done but I still ended up wearing what any girl of that time wore. There was clear gender lines then, as the visits went on they were more demanding as in previously I got home and changed suddenly I stayed as I was till bed time, which annoyed me more so if I wanted to watch my favourite tv programs like the A team or James Bond dressed as I was could not get comfortable could not stretch out on the couch as I did as a boy and I suppose there was more expected of me.

Its interesting that your friends mum was "what's not to like about being a girl?" my mum was somewhat the same when she was trying to get me to wear clothes it was well it’s not that different from shorts and you need to accept this. I don’t think they felt the social conditioning I had if that makes sense. It felt wrong to do what they were asking me to do, but in saying that once I was dressed up for the day I accepted it as I knew things would go back to normal when I did as they wanted. Though as time went on there were other reasons to present as a girl be it a dental appointment or some other reason, then I was expected to dress Sundays and even this annoyed me but I suppose I convinced myself that I could put up with it.

I think I was somewhat predisposed to the idea but it never sat well.
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#4
Hi Karen,

Thanks for such a detailed and thoughtful reply. My friend was born in 1982 and was about 13 when everything began to go upside down for her. Looking like a girl and with breasts (she had to begin wearing a bra), and finding out that she could never be a normal boy with a girl about did her in. It was her mom and her best friend (ironically, a girl) that kept her in balance. All of her other friends abandoned her.

I am very familiar with Dr. John Money, and nature vs. nurture.

My friend took a long time to become comfortable as a female. When she married, she became a girly girl, of all things, always wearing dresses and skirts.

She is grateful that her parents let her choose to transition and had her surgery voluntarily. I am sorry you had your womb removed and didn't even know it.

You mentioned the 1970s- is that when you were born or when you first went to the hospital? Either way, things have seemed to change for the better for intersexed children these days.

Her dad still can't get a grip over how his once son became a straight female who loves sex with her husband. Don't get me wrong - Dad loves both of them to pieces.

Sadly, mom is now gone. She and her new daughter were extremely close. Mom didn't let for some time but she was thrilled to find herself with a surprise daughter.

Now, you. What is life like with you living as a female? I hope you are happy but appreciate that life's challenges have been daunting growing up intersexed and not being aware.

If you prefer private messaging at any time, my email is kim1girl@yahoo.com

Thanks again!

Kimmi
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#5
I can see how she would feel if the boobs started to come out, I was femme back then and had they not pumped me with testosterone would have still been femme, though that was my fault and while I had a good life up until the last few years, heinseight is a great thing If I knew then what I know now I would have stayed the way I was. Hospitals were poking in the dark No DNA tests and all tests took ages compared to now, I don’t blame the orphanage as had they not done the corrective surgery I might not have been aborted, I guess had they talked to me when I was younger it might have been different but I was 11 about to start secondary school and they dumped it all on me, was It the right path possibly at the time, But I suppose I had a lot of hang-ups about what they wanted me to do, and I guess doses of reality as well, For me the things I took for granted as a boy were out of bounds as a girl, simple things like on Sundays pre dressing up we would get a treat maybe once a month day out, restaurant for lunch maybe a walk in a forest park or beach weather permitting as a boy I could roam and do my own thing provided I did not ruin my clothes or shoes. The same to some extent was true when I presented as a girl but I was less happy about roaming around did not want to meet people not that they would have seen anything but a girl I guess, I found my mum was more fussy about me when I dressed up part of it was giving an image but also correcting me and trying to maybe make me act less masc not that I did anyway. Also the same thrill of climbing over rocks at the beach or going off the forest path was not there due to wearing a skirt something that I used to dread but I knew I had to so there was no getting out of it. I tried to limit the time I had to dress up when I could but as time went on it just I suppose I accepted. Most girls were girlie girls back then, initially it was skirts and blouses but then in time dresses which ironically made the skirts feel less femme I remember times begging my mum to let me wear a skirt instead of a dress which in reality I should have been begging for my boy clothes, I can’t blame my mum for what she did as the goal was to have me transition in time so I guess they were feeling it out, but every time I went did more for them more was expected. In saying that I accepted Sundays and hospital as being part of the deal and other than other whims be it going somewhere or an appointment she did not push me to dress initially, but as the weeks went on the demands became more, I suppose I was living life as a boy at my school and then playing girl when I needed to in saying that when I did I got little bribes be it some electronic gizmo or a radio cassette for my birthday or a three in one for xmas so It was kind of a reward for towing the line. But little by little the boy was eroded Suddenly Saturdays were game on so I might spent the morning with my Dad but at lunch time be summoned to have a shower and clothes would be left out for me, though by that time I was used to it and deep down was afraid if I did not play ball that it might get worse, In ways I wished I got excited about wearing the clothes but I used to open my wardrobe with dread if I knew mum had been to town shopping for groceries. Was it terrible not totally, But It did not feel like me, but I got to the mind-set where I was no longer embarrassed to dress up, where It did not annoy me as much if mum asked me to bring my girls clothes to my room if she ironed them in front of my father. Or I no longer got totally bothered about facing a long weekend or time off school. In saying that I often wondered were there other people like me in my school, and what would my peer’s thing if they knew I was dressing up outside of school. I suppose the irony was that other boys might have been looking forward to going home to try on sisters clothes, but I used to dread it.
I suppose what annoyed me was my mum saw my girls clothes as a practical substitution for my boy clothes with her pushing me to dress as a girl more outside of school which made me a recluse in ways though I had my music to keep me happy. It was not like I made that many friends as a boy either because I was seen as different. It was not like I was socialising locally when dressed up even when we did go to church or drives or food we did it away from the area we lived in which was rural but even so.
For me I saw the writing on the wall it seemed that she was purchasing mostly girls clothes for me while my boy’s clothes were limited to what I had and what I needed to complete the year at my school. Typically like anyone I would always change out of my uniform after school home work was done but in time there was a blouse and skirt waiting for me we would argue but it was always the same outcome. I was accused of being stubborn but I saw it differently, I suppose my mum and dad for that matter knew what was ahead and maybe expected to wear me down.
I knew my time at national school was coming to an end and secondary school was on the way, there were talks of entrance exams at primary school and everybody seemed to be going somewhere local, Mum and dad talked about me doing an entrance exam at a school which was near enough to drive to but far enough away to be unknown and it was then I was told I would be attending as a female which was not a shock but I was not happy about it, all the innuendo and hints had finally come to roost, So off I went and did the entrance exam, while the school was very modern, industrial carpets and modern class rooms I was far from happy about the possibility of attending there. Mom and I toured the school after the exam they had teas and coffees and soft drinks but I felt so out of place there, reading the prospectus made it worse and I suppose the thoughts of presenting as a girl full time but the deal was done and they made it clear to me it was done, So over the course of the summer I transitioned into full time which ironically made it easier in ways because there was not the same guilt or switching back and forth, though it was very unceremonious other mu boy clothes went into bags her thing was its summer shorts or skirt no difference reminding me once I started school I would be wearing a skirt everyday which I was well aware of. And maybe had given up.
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#6
Karen, they tried testosterone and everything else known to man to try to spur male development with my intersexed friend. Nothing worked at all. She has partial AIS (Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome).

I sense your parents were doing what they thought best for you and it couldn't have been easy. But you liked being a boy and basically were feminized over time, even if it was with all good intentions.

Kimmi
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#7
For sure they were trying their best and My Mom needed to get me used to a role going foward.

Testosterone injections worked with me sadly and masculinised me to an extent however when they removed my womb a lot of health issue kicked in, which got worse over the years only resolved now that I am on HRT, Even before starting HRT I was sterile from a male point of view and on two occasions had genital surgery removing growths and lumps which was not ideal.

I don’t know if I was fully a boy as I went with them getting me to dress as a girl, Most boys would have kicked up and not went with it, I think I knew deep down I was different as I was not into what most boys liked i.e. sports and so on, I was into my own things making circuits and later computers. When I was told I was biologically female it kind of answered a question though I guess I was naive to think it could all stay as it was but I sense that they were maybe experimenting on me as well to see what the outcome would be as this would have been 1981. I suppose what gets me is my parents were very matter of fact and maybe my mum was naive in a way to think it was just changing my clothes and calling me a different name if that makes sense. Rather than all the other things that wen on inside my head. Also I think relations were told and it was if I never existed as a boy which was surreal in a way. Ironically I made friends at my new school and was not bullied, though I detested the fact that thinks like woodwork and metal work were not an option for me there and that the rules changed as well, before the hammer dropped it was perfectly ok to walk around in shorts without a t-shirt suddenly a blouse had to be worn social norms like that. Also I was made feel bad about my genitals as if there was something bad about them ironically like your friend it was a micropenis and never really developed properly on HRT either. Though it was the way they approached it as If I was going to be flashing people. Don’t get me wrong I settled into the role but at the time it did not feel right not that it was wrong as I suppose the initial feeling I had were more to do with what they were asking me to do was wrong for a boy to do, not that there was anything wrong with it per say, Yes I did feel odd when I wore a skirt and felt like the things I did in trousers were not as easy in a skirt I think a lot of it was just it started badly, But little things like exploring in trousers legs were protected from bushes and so on in a skirt there was no protection, and initially I found them cold but it was just more conditioning than anything else, I can’t say my mum treated me any different to how my older sister was raised and sadly she was away in University during my transition she knew it was happening but was not involved until she saw the almost finished product maybe had she been there would have someone to talk to but who knows it’s might have been worse as well. I think what made it worse was the switching back and forth and yes they were trying to be kind in ways to me as in ease me in gently but had they just flipped the switch there might have been tears for a few days and then some acceptance. But over the year from the time I found out which was September to the following September when I started secondary school as a girl I suppose I was always on edge if that makes sense. It was more the not knowing or what was in store for me when I went home. Even though initially it was something that happened but was over as soon as it started and no one really talked about it till the next time. I suppose I expected that I would dress up go to hospital and everyone would thing hey this is crazy and stop. I did not expect to get another outfit for the next time in hospital. Also I remember visitors calling to the house to my mum or dad and I would be so aware that my girl clothes would be hanging in the kitchen in front of them and expecting them to ask a question about them so I suppose I was really over sensitive about the whole thing. But in time that wore off to an extent Initially I would cringe if mum asked me to bring my blouse and skirt to my room to hang them up but little by little that wore off I think had I been a proper boy I would have fought that, One could say well I had little other choice but it was more than that I think. Also I think I complained and moaned because I was trying to assure my parents I heard it and even when I was full time I still did I was moody and so on, However the reality was bar the certain aspects I actually had an issue with most of it was ok, Yes at times I felt deprived when I was on a bus in the middle of winter and there were boys there all cock sure of themselves and allowed to wear trousers unlike us I felt like I had lost out but there was also a feeling of it is what it is, In ways I was the typical teenager with some hrt running through my body sadly A chain of events triggered a rethink with my parents and doctors and I was let out of the role, If I be honest starting back at a school as a boy became the shit it was when I was younger bullies and so on, But in saying that I felt I had my freedom back to an extent and I suppose parents and doctors saw I looked happier and more engaged than I was living as a girl and let it flow. I think if it were today I would have access to internet and you tube channels and be able to figure it out, Might have been bit of a tomboy who knows but I don’t think the outcome would be the same and if I could go back and tell my younger self anything it would be suck it up act happy because in ways I was as a girl but this would have allowed me to get on the right HRT and not waste so many years through illness and hospitals and maybe depression as well.
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#8
I will write more but I want to say this as soon as I could.

I really feel for you being on the proverbial yo- yo. Yet, with everything, you seem to have persevered. That's such a credit to you.

It would have been far easier simply to transition you all at once with no looking back.
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#9
(08-05-2019, 09:08 PM)Kimmi Wrote: I will write more but I want to say this as soon as I could.

I really feel for you being on the proverbial yo- yo.   Yet, with everything, you seem to have persevered.  That's such a credit to you.  

It would have been far easier simply to transition you all at once with no looking back.

Thank you,

I suppose the trigger was there were two suicides in the space of a few months locally here back then, Mine was a accident  I used to hide out in the hay shed when I wanted to get some head space had i been wearing boy shoes would never have happened but the shoes on that day were held on by straps which broke and I slipped and they though I tried to kill myself so over weeks lot of chats and was I happy and so on, or did I try to do something stupit, The Irony was I had that stage accepted where I was at and was just getting on with life in one way the pressure of being a boy was gone and that was actually quite nice but I suppose I saw a exploit and went for it with my parents, I saw a way of getting what I had back but in reality it was actually quite shit when it happened think of me in the old school as gliding along no huge pressure on a nice arm chair then moved school and forced into sports which I hated and at times got hurt, and I was still different and picked on, Had I known I would not have played the card and I suppose I was too stuborn to say hey guys please let me go back, Ironically my girls clothes lingered in my room for months and months after de transitioning maybe they hoped I would come to my senses who knows, It was a mistake though.
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#10
Karen, the back and forth had to be slow water torture. With my intersexed friend Kate, once she chose girl, her parents insisted on full feminine immersion, although she was still attending school pre-surgery as a boy.

But her chores became those of a girl and no more yard work. Once school was out, Mom dressed her all girl, including skirts and panties.

You mentioned that you are now living as a woman. When did you decide to do so? And why?

Kimmi
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