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Poor David, I have the feeling that he's going to be in nappies and plastic pants for the rest of the Christmas holidays. I wonder if one of the neighbours who popped in for a Christmas drink saw David and remembered that in her attic there were all those baby things she was given when her oldest, who was now thirty, was still in nappies. If she remembered correctly there was a cot, a playpen and a highchair. Even back then they seemed very old fashioned and bulky and wouldn't have really fit into the small room she was going to make into a nursery. They must have been passed on through several families and at the time she remembered putting them in the loft and buying some up to date, and smaller articles of baby furniture. But David's house was much more spacious than hers … so maybe …...  All this flashed through her mind as she saw David, unsuccessfully, trying to merge into the background and hide the fact that he was dressed like a little toddler. She then had a very long talk with David's mum.
Great story Ali, I can't believe I've only just read it. I like the way his mother keeps repeating and reinforcing the embarrassing phrases. " I can check your nappy..." and " see when you wet your nappy..." etc. Completely unnecessary, but most effective at reminding him (as if he needed it) that he's wearing a nappy and is expected to wet himself.

More stories like this please!

humiliation  ,,, what fun mentally abusing a boy... wonder how he felt and if he grew up to be an axe murderer or worse...  
I know its  just a story    but I wonder,,,, how many people get upset about animal abuse... but laugh and enjoy stories of boys being humiliated and embarassed..... seems  hypocritical to me.
but what do I know.  I was purposely humiliated by my mom and big sister... and when I got old enough to defend myself and realized what was going on, I left in a heartbeat. and for years Hated women and girls with a passion
I bet there are many feminized abused boys who think the same thing
Sad Sad upset at people  enjoying abuse of innocent loving defenseless little boys   Sad Sad
p.s I know it's a fake story
One hundred years ago and more, the almost-universally-accepted child-rearing technique was to break your child's will, the sooner the better.  Shaming, humiliation and corporal punishments were the hallmarks of this theory.  Parents were considered as gods within their own households; if a child were being treated harshly, it could only be because the child deserved that negativity.  No one dared to question them on how badly they treated their children.  Unless, of course, the parents were NOT adhering to the conventional wisdom theory.  

Parents who didn't humiliate their children (yes, there were a few who bucked the trend) were thought to be seriously neglecting their children's welfare.  That benighted theory has, unfortunately, persisted through the latter half of the twentieth century, even until today.  Fortunately for children, the shaming theory of child-rearing is very much in the minority today.  Adults who were subjected to the shaming theory as children are much more likely to employ that same theory on their own children.  

The negative effects of child-shaming are well recognized today.  But in our science-averse society, these negatives are frequently dismissed, usually by those who suffer the most from the lingering consequences of child-shaming, which can persist into adulthood.  
I tend to agree that child shaming techniques are a dangerous territory although if one is going to use them, domestically is surely better than in public and in front of the unfortunate’s friends.

I think we have hit upon a bit of a problem as a society though. We have understandably (and quite rightly in my view)¬†removed physical elements as a legitimate means of punishment. If we remove what you refer to as ‚Äėchild shaming‚Äô (essentially making the punishment fit the crime) what other options are actually left?

The fact that there is an acknowledged lack of respect for adults in more recent generations (as teachers if not the parents themselves will attest to) would seem to indicate that we haven’t found a suitable replacement as yet.

If physical punishments and ‚Äėchild shaming‚Äô punishments are completely out and if we assume that current techniques aren‚Äôt having the desired effect, just what is the way forward?
There is a huge difference between fantasy and reality. Many of the things that we can read about here on this group are only things that should be done with consenting adults. It's quite one thing to fantasize about petticoating and humiliating a boy, but a completely different thing to actually do it. One is a harmless mental exercise and the other is abuse.

Many things that were quite common a hundred years ago are no longer acceptable. I hope that is because as a species we've grown up a bit, but I sometimes wonder.
(08-21-2020, 07:44 PM)Cindy Wrote: There is a huge difference between fantasy and reality. Many of the things that we can read about here on this group are only things that should be done with consenting adults. It's quite one thing to fantasize about petticoating and humiliating a boy, but a completely different thing to actually do it. One is a harmless mental exercise and the other is abuse.

Many things that were quite common a hundred years ago are no longer acceptable. I hope that is because as a species we've grown up a bit, but I sometimes wonder.
And it is for precisely this reason (as well as my own intense experiences along such lines in my own youth) that my solutions tend towards a work around. 

There is no doubt that as a species our values have improved substantially in recent decades, and whilst we can still point to things that society could come to understand and accept better, we undoubtedly several steps closer to utopia than we ever were. 

Unfortunately, these methods do seem to having a negative effect on the newer generations particularly with respect of authority (hence my previous post) and so therefore something is needed to counteract this. 

I don’t particularly condone petticoating in the way that I went through it and it is certainly not appropriate in a public environment (not withstanding that anyone trying to practice such publicly in the 21st century would encounter an incredibly harsh reception). 

That said, one of the main reasons such treatment is not tolerated is due to the embarrassment that is caused as a result of such treatment being only applicable to one individual who is subsequently ostracised by their associates. What I am therefore quite keen on is the idea that aspects of what are discussed in terms of petticoating be normalised on a societal level.

In my more radical moments I talk of my ‚Äėgraduation hypothesis‚Äô where all children regardless of gender essentially have to pass exams in aspects of femininity (I call them my dress and skirt stages) if they want to dress as is considered normal for males today and carry out stereotypical male jobs.

In my slightly more realistic moments, I talk of gender studies where each gender is introduced through the education system to clothing and experiences associated with gender. This is really no different to students learning football or baseball today despite not being into sport or learning drama or music despite a lack of interest in the performing arts. In a society where this was normalised, no one would think anything of it and the exploration of gender identity would become more acceptable as a bonus.

In short, we have run out of acceptable punishment methods that actually work; what we must do instead is change our culture (in ways such as those described) to better assure punishment is not needed in the first place.
This is a heavy discussion.
I may contribute if I see an area in which I feel qualified.
My upbringing had no sissification as punishment and there was no sexualization with regard to punishments. Hell, I had no idea of sex until one evening at the supper table I asked my dad what ‚Äúfuck‚ÄĚ means. Between he and my mom, after supper they explained all of it to me including birth control, menstruation, the works.
While I didn’t know jack about sex, two things were already ingrained in me:
1: I got excited and turgid when I was exposed to women and young ladies undergoing beauty treatments, especially hair treatments and most especially seeing women sitting under a salon hairdryer. This began when I was about 5 and a beautiful neighborhood girl told me how lucky I was to be a boy because I did not have to go through having to sit under a hot hairdryer.
2: I knew my dad would beat my ass with his belt if I screwed up.
These two ideas were not connected cerebrally.
I began to read adult material and realized I was not alone with regard to fetishism. I learned that the fingerprint of my fetishes was either unique or rare.
My dad never broke me per se’, but much of my good behavior came about because I feared my dad. He was a great guy, and while he is now deceased, I have never met anyone smarter or more attuned to life.
I did somewhat have a ‚Äúthing‚ÄĚ for diapers, but tending to the vagaries of my dad‚Äôs Incontinence issues during his waning years gave me pause.
Yes! The kids of today NEED strong parents. The reality is that today’s parents (painting with a broad brush here) are busy with other stuff.
Gee! I actually do have opinions!
Now I am grandfather with a willingness to teach my grandsons about life.
I am glad you have opinions, Salonslave. I suppose the question remains what legitimate options of discipline the parents have open to them that both work and are acceptable. I have often considered masculinity to be one of the main problems facing humanity and the root cause behind many of today’s problems. 

My ‚ÄėGraduation Hypothesis‚Äô is essentially a means of licensing masculinity (or masculine tendencies in any case) and involves each child having to learn how to be girly in dresses and learning about and becoming atune to the feminine side of themselves.¬†

This would earn them the right to enter the skirt stage where they would learn skills associated with what teenage and young women are familiar with such as applying makeup, walking in high heels or fixing a run in one’s tights. 

These levels would not be easy to pass and would likely result in most children spending primary school in dresses and high school in skirts. For the most part they would then need to get their first employment role in a secretarial position or something (or at least something where pencil skirts and heels were still practical. 

The end result is that anyone who manages to earn right to their masculine side does with knowledge of how to act more delicately and would likely have a more balanced approach to masculinity.

‚ÄėGender Studies‚Äô aims for similar goals but is obviously more of a once a week affair with (for males) feminine skills needing to be learned to pass an exam.

In society though, I think this would reduce a lot of violence either because it is much more difficult to have a scrap in a pencil skirt and heels or because having escaped them, the risk of receiving a legal penalty where one is introduced to them would be seen as too great. Carried across all crimes this would greatly reduce prison populations.

And think of the effect in relationships(even remaining with the standards we still have today). For the first time males as a whole would appreciate why it took so long for females to get ready as they would themselves have previously spent hours practicing their own hair and makeup. They would be able to sympathise with the pain of walking distances in high heels as such footwear would be familiar to them also.

These sound like systems of enforced crossdressing but what needs to be remembered is that such behaviour would become normalised (just as women wearing trousers once went through that process). In my view this would make for a much more tolerant and accepting society and punishment (were it necessary at all) could be clearly laid out, in the case of my ‚ÄėGraduation Hypothesis‚Äô by a temporary (or not do temporary) regression in status or in ‚ÄėGender Studies‚Äô instead of an hour‚Äôs detention, an hour of intense engagement in the norms of the opposite gender (aspects of which their friends would be accustomed to anyway).
GG, I respectfully disagree.
I think it is enough that everyone goes through school grades beginning with not only kindergarten, but pre K and now pre pre K or Headstart in USA.
I just do not believe that equating progress with gender accoutrements is good for youngsters. I don’t like to think of anything even remotely sexual with young people.
I miss the 50s with the two parent household and formal education beginning with the first grade at 6. The time spent with my mother before first grade taught me table manners, proper diction, how to tie my shoes, how to plant, keep, and harvest a garden. My mom was never preoccupied by texting or other BS.
Food service was led by my mom but everyone helped and didn’t need special gender clothing to become respectable reliable people.

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